RTT Freeze

Discussions on supporting software, helpful tools, and other software aids related to BMS life.
Post Reply
User avatar
Thumper
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:44 pm
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Flight Activity

Mission Participation

Re: RTT Client and 3D fullscreen display

Post by Thumper » Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:19 pm

Well, for me, after about an hour of setting up all my placement of extractions. It worked okay for a flight or two, but now only works for a short while, then freezes.
I feel the BMS team (although I'm grateful to them! I hope it doesn't sound like I'm not...) have gotten a bit too far into the bubble. When things just "work" you can get a lot more people interested, or at least keep them interested. But I feel they maybe think everyone is as "into" and passionate as they are about this Sim. The native display extraction worked. All the others I've tried have been spotty. If it slowed down frame rates, so be it. If I didn't like that, I should make the decision whether I want to spend all the time trying to get things placed in the right spot and trying to make it work. Also, if I want to write a program, as simple as some might think it is, I should be able to decide that.
Maybe it just couldn't be supported any more, but at this point, I wasted $$$ on that other monitor. I have no other use for it except for this Sim. And flying without it is problematic for me now.

User avatar
Zeus
222nd C/O
Posts: 1535
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:08 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Contact:

Flight Activity

Certifications

Mission Participation

Re: RTT Client and 3D fullscreen display

Post by Zeus » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:35 am

Thumper wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:19 pm
Well, for me, after about an hour of setting up all my placement of extractions. It worked okay for a flight or two, but now only works for a short while, then freezes.
I feel the BMS team (although I'm grateful to them! I hope it doesn't sound like I'm not...) have gotten a bit too far into the bubble. When things just "work" you can get a lot more people interested, or at least keep them interested. But I feel they maybe think everyone is as "into" and passionate as they are about this Sim. The native display extraction worked. All the others I've tried have been spotty. If it slowed down frame rates, so be it. If I didn't like that, I should make the decision whether I want to spend all the time trying to get things placed in the right spot and trying to make it work. Also, if I want to write a program, as simple as some might think it is, I should be able to decide that.
Maybe it just couldn't be supported any more, but at this point, I wasted $$$ on that other monitor. I have no other use for it except for this Sim. And flying without it is problematic for me now.
I know this won't necessarily help but think of RTT as the new version of the native display - and a required step to shedding off some of the past.

Having said that, let's see about getting you running again. I am running it only to extract the MFDs - for everything else I am using MFDE. While I haven't done any super long flight tests yet, I expect that all to change over the next few days since I am now on vacation until the new year. I should be around to help out with any troubleshooting and will report my findings as well.

Hang in there!
Win 11 Pro 64 bit | i9-12900 @ 5.6GHz | Noctua CPU cooler |Trident Z Series 32 GB 5600 DDR5 ram |
NVidia 1080 gtx| 1x49" Curved plus 1x22" for gauge extractions | Cougar w/ FSSB| Cougar MFDs | Saitek rudders | Home Cockpit

User avatar
Zeus
222nd C/O
Posts: 1535
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:08 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Contact:

Flight Activity

Certifications

Mission Participation

Re: RTT Client and 3D fullscreen display

Post by Zeus » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:17 pm

Thumper wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:19 pm
Well, for me, after about an hour of setting up all my placement of extractions. It worked okay for a flight or two, but now only works for a short while, then freezes.
@Thumper...
So it sounds like this is a pretty widespread problem and may be a BMS issue that the Dev team is working on.

What's interesting for me is I now have MFDE doing all my extractions including the MFDs. But if this truly is a BMS issue then it doesn't matter what tool you are using to extract the MFDs...they will eventually freeze up. Will keep testing.
Win 11 Pro 64 bit | i9-12900 @ 5.6GHz | Noctua CPU cooler |Trident Z Series 32 GB 5600 DDR5 ram |
NVidia 1080 gtx| 1x49" Curved plus 1x22" for gauge extractions | Cougar w/ FSSB| Cougar MFDs | Saitek rudders | Home Cockpit

User avatar
Zeus
222nd C/O
Posts: 1535
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:08 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Contact:

Flight Activity

Certifications

Mission Participation

Re: RTT Client and 3D fullscreen display

Post by Zeus » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:51 pm

UPDATE:
And as expected, while MFDE seems to be working for me now, it suffers from the same fate and RTT when it comes to MFD extractions. Really looking like a BMS issue where BMS no longer updates the chink of memory where any/all extraction tools get their data. Yet the in-pit MFDs do continue to work. All other gauge extractions seem to be fine (most likely because that a different type of extraction).

So we just need to hang in there a bit while they work this out. We won't make an official move to 4.35 until this is working properly.
Win 11 Pro 64 bit | i9-12900 @ 5.6GHz | Noctua CPU cooler |Trident Z Series 32 GB 5600 DDR5 ram |
NVidia 1080 gtx| 1x49" Curved plus 1x22" for gauge extractions | Cougar w/ FSSB| Cougar MFDs | Saitek rudders | Home Cockpit

User avatar
Zeus
222nd C/O
Posts: 1535
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:08 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Contact:

Flight Activity

Certifications

Mission Participation

RTT Freeze

Post by Zeus » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:54 pm

Given the critical nature of this topic I started a new thread and have moved several posts from other threads to this one in an attempt to keep things organized.
Win 11 Pro 64 bit | i9-12900 @ 5.6GHz | Noctua CPU cooler |Trident Z Series 32 GB 5600 DDR5 ram |
NVidia 1080 gtx| 1x49" Curved plus 1x22" for gauge extractions | Cougar w/ FSSB| Cougar MFDs | Saitek rudders | Home Cockpit

User avatar
Thumper
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:44 pm
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Flight Activity

Mission Participation

Re: RTT Freeze

Post by Thumper » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:45 pm

Glad it isn't just me! I haven't been able to get MFDE to work since 4.33! I miss that like crazy, but got used to just the BMS extractions. As I may have said in my earlier post, I have the RTT working in the right places, but it shouldn't take that amount of time to get them to work! I did see, and try to use the simple utilty for drag and drop someone made that you posted, but it just seemed to reset the whole RTT file?

User avatar
Derk
176th C/O
Posts: 1043
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:45 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Flight Activity

Certifications

Mission Participation

Re: RTT Freeze

Post by Derk » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:33 am

I have to agree with Thumpers opinion as it doesn't make sense to me to take away something that worked fine enough for many, was easy to setup, and started up automatically with BMS, in leu of a new program that seems to be just tacked on quickly. Extractions are a key piece for many serious about this sim in order to gain a lot of situational awareness using external monitors, so I hope there's a solid solution being worked on to regain functionality we had been accustomed to for many years with the other method. While I just got into setup and testing, I'm seeing lost frame rate on the MFD's (cursor and numbers get blurry when moved around) compared to before, so for now in my opinion, I too question this enhancement while not still allowing the old method if we preferred. I'll be watching this thread and curious to hear of others opinions, trials, and successes.
Image

User avatar
Wheelchock
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:22 pm

Flight Activity

Re: RTT Freeze

Post by Wheelchock » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:34 pm

I'm no coding expert but having some insight into how image extractions work in BMS here's my 2 cents worth.

For clarity sake, BMS still exports its external window code to sharedmemory just like it did in previous versions. MFDE and Helios both use this method to grab the images for the window extractions. I've heard others report that MFDE works and some report that it doesn't work. I'n my opinion I think this may depend if you've downloaded the most recent version or not. Neither of these tools could render faster or better (quality wise) than how BMS pre 4.35 could do or how Yame64 used to be able to do it with 4.33. In Yame64 (BMS 4.33) there was an option for fast rendering that used a different method for grading the images that stopped working in 4.34.

I think RTT is using the same sharedmemory method for image grabbing that Helios and MFDE does.

What has changed is RTT now can utilize other rendering methods.

[excerpt from the RTTClient.ini file]
# The preferred renderer to use:
# 0 = SDL2: pick automatically
# 1 = SDL2: Direct3D 9
# 2 = SDL2: Direct3D 11
# 3 = SDL2: OpenGL
# 4 = SDL2: OpenGL ES
# 5 = SDL2: Software
# 6 = SFML: OpenGL
RENDERER = 0

Has anyone tried selecting other rendering methods besides letting RTT figure it out with default option '0' ? If not I would try this first.

I did some testing with RTT last night to see if its image quality was any better than what Helios does for me and it seems to be the same. The only difference I found is that I run my Windows monitors with a Windows Scaling of 150% due to my main monitor being a 43" @ 3840x2160. RTT fails to scale its windows properly so all my RTT windows are hidden probably somewhere off the screen in lala land. So if your doing any windows scaling probably RTT is not going to work for you.

So that's my 2 cents worth...
Image
AMD Ryzen 5 5600x | AMD Radeon RX 6600 XT | 32Gb 2 x Corsair Ballistix 3200 | Corsair H60 AIO | Main screen: 1 x 43" Samsung HDTV | Touch Screen: 1 x 22" Planar monitor

User avatar
Zeus
222nd C/O
Posts: 1535
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:08 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Contact:

Flight Activity

Certifications

Mission Participation

Re: RTT Freeze

Post by Zeus » Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:05 pm

Wheelchock wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:34 pm
For clarity sake, BMS still exports its external window code to sharedmemory just like it did in previous versions. MFDE and Helios both use this method to grab the images for the window extractions. I've heard others report that MFDE works and some report that it doesn't work. I'n my opinion I think this may depend if you've downloaded the most recent version or not. Neither of these tools could render faster or better (quality wise) than how BMS pre 4.35 could do or how Yame64 used to be able to do it with 4.33. In Yame64 (BMS 4.33) there was an option for fast rendering that used a different method for grading the images that stopped working in 4.34.

I think RTT is using the same sharedmemory method for image grabbing that Helios and MFDE does.
You are spot on with your assessment which is why all MFD extractors are now suffering with an unstable MFD extraction and what I believe has convinced the Dev team to look at this as a BMS issue. Therefore I don't think messing around with any of the other rendering options will prove any different in term of stability but possibly with other issues some report.

I think the blurry text (on MFDs) is related to the new font thing so it's important to distinguish which problem / concern we are seeing. So much changes its hard to pull them apart but doing so will help focus efforts.

And then there is the tanker issue (no one but the hosting pilot seems to be able take on fuel - but let's put that in another thread if needed) so between that and the extractions we will be sticking to 4.34 until those items (are fixed).
Win 11 Pro 64 bit | i9-12900 @ 5.6GHz | Noctua CPU cooler |Trident Z Series 32 GB 5600 DDR5 ram |
NVidia 1080 gtx| 1x49" Curved plus 1x22" for gauge extractions | Cougar w/ FSSB| Cougar MFDs | Saitek rudders | Home Cockpit

User avatar
Thumper
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:44 pm
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Flight Activity

Mission Participation

Re: RTT Freeze

Post by Thumper » Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:33 pm

Wheelchock wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:34 pm
I'n my opinion I think this may depend if you've downloaded the most recent version or not.
...
So that's my 2 cents worth...
I have 0.6.3.0, which came out in like 1873, but seems to be the latest version. I am losing more hair than its usual fast pace due to this MFDE tease dance. I can recover something, it shows up and when I move it, it stays. As soon as I recover another, the first one disappears. To make sure to hold my interest however, there is a short, like 10 millisecond flicker of all the old extractions on my second monitor!
I've completely uninstalled and reinstalled it multiple times.

User avatar
Twister
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:48 pm
Location: Kansas City Mo.

Flight Activity

Certifications

Re: RTT Freeze

Post by Twister » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:32 pm

Not sure what I'm doing differently, but I tested it out last night using RTT in a SP campaign mission that lasted around an hour and a half. No issues at all with MFD's, DED, RWR, and PFL. Smooth and no stutters. Not sure if you are referring to blur on the 3D pit or the extractions, but my extractions are clear as a bell. Zoomed out in 3D I have trouble reading them, but my Mk1 isn't what it used to be.

I'm sure some of you here are running better hardware than I am. I'm still using Windows 8.1 on my BMS rig, but don't know if that would make any difference or not. Ghastly gave me a hand getting the extractions in the right spot by using coordinates from 4.34 CDE, but other than that I haven't run into any issues yet.
Image

Post Reply